The Bear: Sibling bonds, mental health & addiction (with Asha Hunter)
About the Episode
When a family gathering transforms into a chaotic battleground, no one leaves unscathed. Season 2 of The Bear took us beyond the chaotic kitchen of the restaurant and into the heart and home of the Berzatto family. In the emotional episode "Fishes," we witnessed the complex dynamics and strong sibling bonds of the Berzatto family during a turbulent Christmas dinner that becomes a battleground for unresolved pain.
At the center of the storm are brothers Carmy and Mikey, bound by their shared passion for food and their troubled family history, yet divided by addiction and varied mental health struggles.
We'll explore how their sister Natalie navigates this tumultuous family environment, the impact of their mother's bipolar disorder and uncontrolled drinking on the family, and how the ever-present fear of failure and overwhelming shame fuels the destructive cycle of addiction, high anxiety, and ultimately, Mikey’s suicide.
Guest: Asha Hunter, marketer and independent filmmaker
This episode may help you:
Understand the disruption addiction brings to family dynamics
Recognize the power and fragility of sibling bonds in dysfunctional environments
Learn how guilt affects both those struggling with addiction and their family members
Empathize with people who are fearful of disappointing their loved ones
Watch Now
Episode Links
CLIPS FROM THE BEAR
Carmy’s Al-Anon monologue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fjITOkFnnE
Carmy gifts Mikey a dream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWy3_XQ8FaQ
The fork-toss moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_gvg1KNaeE&rco=1
Resources:
OUR SIBLING-FOCUSED COMMUNITY
Join our Facebook group, Siblings For Love of Recovery to:
Connect with other siblings
Share your own story in a safe space
Find support for navigating the journey
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Asha: When you are the person who's taking the temperature in the room, when you're the patriarch, when you're everyone's best friend, who's your best friend? Who's talking to you about whatever you're going through? And then you may be telling yourself, “I don't have time to ask for help because I got to be there for everybody else.”
Dominique: Welcome to FLOR, For Love of Recovery, where I'm your host, Dominique Dajer. During each episode, I'll be joined by people who either share their personal stories as it relates to their sibling substance use and how it has affected their family. Or by professionals and advocates who can share their unique perspectives from a mental health, community, or cultural lens.
Season 2 of The Bear took us into the heart of the kitchen. But beneath the yelling and chaos lies a deeper story. The story of the Brisato family. In Fishes, we explore the fractured bond between Carmen and his brother Mikey. This episode is about more than food. It's full of spoiler alerts that explore the heavy weight of shame, the yearning for connection, and the struggle to keep a dream alive after loss.
We'll dive into the impact their mother's mental illness and addiction had on them, their sister, Natalie, and how it shaped their lives.
Dominique: So today we have Asha Hunter with us. She's a filmmaker, a marketer, and a good friend of mine. So one, thank you, Asha, for being on the show.
Asha: I was going to say, thank you for having me on the podcast. Super excited. And as a filmmaker, I am also a film and TV nerd. So watching the bear has been a really cool experience because.The writing, the acting, all of it is just incredible.
Dominique: So we're not going to dive into every single point in this episode, just because there's so much substance, but we're really going to look at it through the lines of the siblings and each of their relationships with each other and their relationship with their mom.
So before we get into talking about the infamous episode “Fishes”, there are a couple of points I want to talk about from season one that introduced Carmy and Mike's relationship. In season one, we really see that Carmy idolized Mike. And after his death, Carmy really tries to keep his dream alive. How does Carmy exactly try to do that?
And is it an attempt to honor Mikey or a way to cope with his grief?
Asha: For those who may not have seen it yet, when you start The Bear, you're getting bits and pieces of the past, and you're getting them through the lens of the people that were around Mikey, because Carmy, We learned throughout the series, specifically season one, that he hasn't been around, he's been becoming this top chef.
Right. And we don't even know the motivation for that until it nears the end of the season. So at first for me, as a, as a new viewer with, with the same information that the rest of us are getting as we're watching each episode unfold, I'm just like, Oh, this dude wanted to be top chef and he worked his ass off and, and, and succeeded.
So then. When you start to see these internal battles, it presented a lot of question marks. So I was like, well, what is going on? Why does it matter to him that he succeeds at saving the bear? And because it seems like it's very much a burden, this restaurant. So I'm just kind of like, bro, like you are a top chef.
You literally can go anywhere. And so to answer your question, what became clear to me is that Carmy loves The Bear. What it was before and what he's hoping to have it become now is a representation of his family. No matter how dysfunctional it is, the bear is a representation of something that they created, something that sparks his love for cooking, which he got through his brother.
It seems like Carmy found his purpose through, through cooking, but that was birthed out of the relationship that he had with his brother. He talks about how he felt when he was with his brother and they were cooking and he's also battling himself. Because he lost a lot of time with his brother and his family.
And so my perception is that he's also trying to make up for it. So it's like, if he can succeed and bring the bear to this place, get it out of debt, make it mean something post pandemic where a lot of restaurants are closing, he can honor his brother.
Dominique: During the pandemic, there are so many restaurants closing down and Carmy is like “Why the fuck are you giving me this restaurant?”
Their relationship was strained for so long and then Mikey's really coming out of the woodworks giving him this restaurant after his death. And I think there's a little hidden message that Mikey really knew how much Carmy wanted this restaurant, even if he didn't vocalize it. He knew that this was really a gift that he was giving him, and whether or not Mikey knew it at the time, there was kind of a point where he knew Carmy would take this on as a way to, like, for lack of a better word, avenge his brother, and we see that manifest in different ways throughout Seasons 1 and 2, but I love that point that you bring up.
Asha: I think that Carmy is trying to make his brother proud. And to almost give purpose to the loss, right? Like, I don't want your life being lost to be a waste. I want it to mean something. And then at the same time, he's fighting his own battle. And I think we're still really discovering what that internal battle is.
Dominique: So it sounds like they are efforts to revitalize the restaurant, but They're also an attempt to heal the fractured bonds between him and Mikey, right? It's not just about avenging his brother, or it's not just about living out this dream, but it's about maybe if he can fix this restaurant, he can fix this relationship.
That matters not just to Carmy, but really to the entire family. And we get to see a little bit of this in season one as well, how Mikey's really good at reading the room. There's one episode in the Al Anon meeting, where Carmy opens up and talks about his relationship with Mikey. When Carmy describes Mikey's ability to take the temperature of her room, what exactly does that say about Mikey's emotional intelligence.
Asha: High as hell. Mikey passes away, which we find out very early on in the like, I think, first episode, due to suicide. And I forget, with Robin Williams, I think it was said he felt like he could feel everything, and it becomes overwhelming when you can feel everybody's emotion. So when you're thinking about someone like Mikey who can sit in a room and scan the room instantaneously and be like, okay, this is what's happening.
It's a survival instinct, right? Exactly. It's like, I need to know what's going on. I gotta be ready. It's almost like he probably feels he has a responsibility to control the temperature once he's gauged what it is, right? That's a huge emotional responsibility on anyone. And there's this scene where he's talking to Carmy in the closet or something, the pantry or whatever, and Carmy's showing him.
The picture of the bear, like what he feels like it could look like in an elevated way. And you just know that Mikey is going through it. And when Carmy leaves because someone calls Carmy I think and he starts to just get emotional and he starts laughing his head very aggressively and it's understanding like I have to get my shit together.
I got to calm down. But he's going through it. His brain is on fire.
Dominique: And just in this one experience between him and Carmy navigating this relationship, it sounds like it probably goes way back to their childhood, right? Like this isn't just coming up in adulthood. Today, this is probably something that's been stemming in their relationship from, you know, being young siblings.
How much do we think Mikey developed his keen observation skills as a way to navigate a difficult childhood environment?
Asha: I mean, I definitely think that you are the eldest of three children. We don't know where the dad is. We have a mother who is someone who has an addiction. I think life has always been a little crazy for them.
And I think that Mikey, and this happens a lot with older siblings, feel that they have to take up the mantle. And protect their siblings. I think Mikey was trying to protect Carmy. Because the thing is, we don't realize until the Al Anon meeting, that the only reason why Carmy became so poppin was because he felt this false rejection.
And it also speaks to the fact that in familial relationships, or relationships of any kind, we think something's happening for this reason, and we're completely off.
Dominique: It becomes like an innate survival skill where you're reading the room because you think you can actually assume what everyone might be thinking or feeling or what their next move might be, but by doing that, you actually shut down every possibility where they might actually not be thinking or feeling that.
You know, my brother and I are about 10 years apart. And I kind of played like that parental role where I just naturally always wanted to protect my brother given the age difference and my friends and I always joke that like when I first meet someone I'm always super quiet and it's not necessarily because I'm shy.
But it's because I'm reading a room and I think a lot of people might feel that they've been conditioned to observe a room before they actually go ahead and respond to it.
Asha: It is about our lived experiences, right? You think about your, your childhood and having a younger brother who's a decade apart and what that means and how, It's very easy to take that secondary parental role, even if it's not on purpose, like subconsciously, like even just being a woman.
And I'm not saying all women have to have maternal instincts, but a lot of us, it's built in. And so you are the older sibling and you are the, a female, it's kind of like you were going to go down that path anyway, or it was almost inevitable. I am the youngest. And while I feel oftentimes I've been put in the situation to be the eldest, which is a whole other conversation, I've always felt a responsibility to have to show up kind of like Mikey, but not necessarily taking the temperature of the room.
But I'm not quiet in the beginning, and I think it's because I've always felt like I've had to set the stage. And that's my form of protection. Now I, my, my form of protection or when you're in a survival state of mind, you have to think about what makes sense and what works for you in the moment. And I think that by being quiet, doesn't mean that like you're being fake.
It just means that you're tapping into a different part of yourself for this particular experience, right? Because this is what's required.
Dominique: In season two. We see a lot of different sides of each character that we don't really get to see in season one. And in fishes in particular, We learn that Carmy doesn't necessarily come home often, but in this episode he does for this holiday dinner.
So we already know that this must be something that means a lot to him and to his family for him to come home once a year or whatever it might be. There's like this concept that when Carmy does come home for this Christmas dinner, the caged bear like finally escapes. And I think that's something that he's been trying to contain for so long and it finally unravels in this episode.
What do you think this imagery around, like, the cage bear escaping represents about his feelings towards his family dysfunction and not wanting to come home except for maybe once a year?
Asha: I could totally be wrong on this, but I think for me, I know what it's like to be in a family where you have a lot of responsibility and expectation put on you.
And there was a time where I loved it and I ate it up because I don't know, like I was conditioned to believe that this was a good thing. And I'll mean some, this is, I'll give a light example. Every time we have a family gathering, my dad would always be like, okay, should you say the prayer? And I'm like, why, you know, why do I always say, and I used to think it's like, let me take up the mantle and like bless the food.
And one time my aunt was like, why is he always asking me to do these things? And I'm like, I don't know. Because it's like, there are other people that are capable of praying for some food. Right. But, I didn't want the responsibility. I want to show up and enjoy the gathering like everybody else. I don't feel like I got it.
I have all these roles that I have to perform. It just, everything feels performative. And then going back to authenticity, it didn't feel like my authentic self. I felt like my family wasn't paying attention to me or wasn't interested in what it is that I wanted to do. And so as a result of that, it makes me want to separate myself.
The kitchen scene where the mom played by Jamie Lee Curtis is cooking, I mean, like, there's this, it's the big feast, right? And you can see, like, she starts on a high and it is a decline. It is a decline. And they were telling the sister, That she needs to stop tripping because she's showing up checking in on her mom all the time asking if she's okay And that's the shit that pisses the mom off and Carmy and Mikey know that like you gotta stop doing that But she just can't help herself She won't let go of that when you think about Carmy's experience as a chef when he leaves this crazed Environment that yes, he may be very well used to but it is insane.
It is a lot happening all at once. He's in a more structured environment as a chef It's everything is uniform down to the uniform. Everything is down to the second. You have five minutes. We don't get this shit right in five minutes. We're fucked for the rest of the night.
Dominique: It's like there's a predictability that comes from the kitchen and from his work that he doesn't actually get at home.
Asha: It is unpredictable that dinner. It's one of those things where what ends up happening at the dinner is like super unpredictable and chaotic But it's also like equally on brand for his family Yeah, I know what's on brand for my family and i'm just like and that's why You I'm only coming once a year.
That's why you're going to see me at this barbecue for about an hour. And I'm out because I'm like, I don't want to deal with whatever it could potentially come. And if you can be friends with your blood relatives, that to me is a blessing. It's an extra cherry on top, but it is not a guarantee. I think for Carmy, they're proud of him, but they're just like, whatever.
You don't come home. And honestly, the only person that he really wants validation from is Mikey.
Dominique: And for those that haven't watched it. Spoiler alert, Carmy and Mikey walk into the pantry and they're talking about how Mikey was bringing up Claire Bear, who is one of Carmy's childhood crushes, and you can sense that Carmy felt a little bit embarrassed when that was brought up, right?
And one of the things that Carmy says to Mikey is, “You don't give a fuck” and that one statement is something that deeply hurts Mikey you see how on his face He's wearing this expression where he's shocked. He's hurt. He's offended He's almost embarrassed that he would even think that Carmy would feel that way and he responds with I give a huge fuck.
And in so many words, just those couple of statements show that we can often assume, or we can try to interpret what someone might be feeling or thinking, but we really don't know until we bring it up to them. And this scene in particular, opens up a space for Carmy to gift Mikey his Christmas gift. And when he opens it up, it's a image of his dream vision of the restaurant that they could possibly own together.
But we see that after, after he hands it over to him, Mikey shuts down a little bit and he starts crying. Why do you think Mikey breaks down after Carmy shows him the restaurant vision was it do you think it was out of fear of the venture itself or really about disappointing Carmy?
Asha: I'm not saying that everybody who commits suicide knows they're gonna commit suicide But if you're having suicidal ideations and you want a way out, you know, it's probably coming You don't know what day or whatever, but you know, it's probably coming and how many times do we hear stories where people were like?
I didn't see this coming I will always remember this clip that came out about a year or two ago with this MMA fighter. I think he went to the fight and his speech is not about the win. His speech is like basically saying that In a few days, he's gonna have to go bury one of his best friends because he killed himself.
And he said, men, you guys, we need to talk. Talk to your friends. He said, I wish that my friend would have picked up the phone and cried. And now I have to go bury him. And every time I see it, it makes me emotional. Because what we know without, again, the dialogue is that Mikey's going through it. And he can't even be excited.
And you know, as an older sibling, you still see your little brother, in a sense, as your little brother, right? Like, you remember him as his little self. So it's like, I don't think infantilization is the correct word, but when Carmy comes into the pantry, comes in like a little kid on Christmas, and he's like, look what I got.
He's so hyped to show his big brother, remove the fact they're adults. He's just hyped to show his big brother this thing. Mikey knows that he's in a lot of pain. Mikey knows that he doesn't know how to deal with this pain. Mikey knows that the restaurant is in debt, that there's just all this stuff that's going on.
And that. And Carmen's coming in here with a dream that is actually, I think something that they could have accomplished together, but he's just like, you don't know what I know. I think for men, especially, that's hard when you are the person who's taking the temperature in the room, when you're the patriarch, when you're everyone's best friend, who's your best.
Who's talking to you about whatever you're going through. And then you may be telling yourself, I don't have time to ask for help because I got to be there for everybody else.
Dominique: How do Carmy and Mikey navigate their mother's bipolar disorder and her alcoholism, both individually as brothers? And how does that vary from how Natalie decides to show up?
Asha: We don't see it as much with Mikey, and maybe it's just because we know that he lives with this lady. But with Carmy, he just takes her beatings, right? She's just like, you don't come home. She's talking mad shit. One minute she's proud of him because she's also like babies him. You could tell he's kind of low key the favorite, or at least that's what I got, but she's also like equally disappointed.And so he just takes it on the chin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They just don't take it as personal. They know mom is tripping, she got issues, but her behaviors and the effects of that, that's another conversation.
Dominique: Carmy and Mikey have actually accepted who their mother is. They've accepted that this is how she's gonna show up in the world, whether or not we like it.
Whereas Natalie, she's trying to subtly control the situation in a way where it's like she wants to appease her mother, she wants to make sure that things can go as smoothly as possible, and that her mom shows up for her. Whenever she can later on at the end of the season when they do open the restaurant She's like hyper aware of her mom not being at the opening of the restaurant.
She's almost like on edge about it whereas Carmy is like don't even expect her to show up, but it's not something at the top of his mind And Natalie is constantly looking for ways to be in You know, appreciated and accepted by her mom and we see in this episode how that actually backfires between Natalie and Donna.
We see a lot of like this push and pull. There's a lot of Donna saying, you know, no one cares about me and no one appreciates what I'm doing and all the work that I'm putting into dinner and cooking and etcetera. And Natalie is constantly trying to check in and make sure her mom is actually okay. But Donna doesn't want to be cared for in that way.
She's frustrated by the fact that Natalie keeps asking her, why do you keep asking me if I'm okay? You're not asking anyone else here if they're okay. And you see that she pushes Natalie away when Natalie is actually the only person who's showing up and trying to make sure that she is actually okay.
Asha: And I mean, but you know what that makes me think of as a divorcee who's dating again, it's that we as people need to understand one, how do we want to be loved? And then two, when we are in relationship, whether it's friendship, whether it's romantic, whether it's familial, how does that person need love?
One Donna's just straight tripping, just throwing a temper tantrum and you're like, no mom, I can't, I'm here. I'm paying it. Look at me. I care when it's like, that's not the way that she wants to be loved. She's saying she wants to be appreciated, but that's not the way that she wants it, especially in a drunken state.
Dominique: Exactly. And so Donna's behavior like continues to escalate throughout the course of the episode and that's obviously fired by her drinking consistently every couple of minutes. But it's also fueled by, like, her bipolar disorder and, like, this surreal image of what's actually going on and how her kids are trying to show up for her.
Like, there's this dynamic between Donna's needs and what her doubts are about Natalie and her kids and what they're actually doing. You know, they're trying to help, right? Like, to Donna, they're not actually doing anything. But they are trying to help in a way that they can actually survive the situation.
And then Natalie, she's trying to show this concern for her mom, but she's also trying to like deescalate the situation. What do you think is working about Natalie's approach? And what do you think is not working? The whole time I watched this episode,
Asha: I connected with Natalie because I know what it's like to feel like I have to be the one to quell the anger or chaos.
Like, I gotta extinguish the fire. I gotta find a way to bring it down. And Natalie doesn't understand that the best way that she's gonna get quiet and that she can actually de escalate is just to not participate. Don't be an active participant. I told Dom that she didn't have to say this, but I have a podcast I just haven't been keeping up with it But it's called truth is and there was an episode that I did ages to go called We don't negotiate with terrorists.
I'm not negotiating with you. I'm not engaging with you. And yes, the terrorists can come in the form of my dad. They can come in the form of my uncle. If you are terrorizing my space, I'm not engaging with you. I'm not going to negotiate with you because in a situation where Donna, you can't negotiate with Donna.
She is drunk. She suffers from bipolar. She can't hear you. She sees red. And now, she sees red. The red is even brighter because you're doing the one thing, you know, she cannot.
Dominique: Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's like, obviously they're all adults. They're in their twenties and thirties or whatever. And you kind of see Natalie resort to like this childlike state.
She wants to be there for her mommy. But at the end of the day, it's like your mommy is telling you that she wants to be left alone. It's interesting. Cause like, When Natalie does leave the room and Donna is alone for a couple of minutes before dinner, she says, I make beautiful things for them, but no one makes beautiful things for me.
And you can see that Donna, in a way, she kind of reverts back to like this emotional, this childlike emotional state. And I think it says a lot about how people want to be loved, which is what you brought up earlier. What do you think this dynamic between her drinking and her bipolar disorder really says about what her emotional needs are?
Asha: We don't hear about the dad. We don't know where this man is. We don't know if they had a loving relationship and then he died. We don't know if he was vegan or we don't know if he just said, I don't want to do this thing with this family anymore, and if we do know when we miss it, but like, we don't hear about the dad, right?
When there's an absent parent that already creates mad issues or potential issues, now you have someone who has bipolar as someone who has polycystic ovarian syndrome, essentially it's a hormonal condition that affects women. And it can affect our fertility. It can affect our moods. A lot of women with PCOS suffer from depression because there is a hormonal imbalance.
And one of the symptoms of PCOS is that we bruise easily. Imagine if you had the answers to why you're going through the shit that you're going through, then you could be like, okay. And that's kind of like the start. But when you're going through hell and you don't really understand why that just makes more hell, this creates more hell.
I think the thing about the bear, which is so powerful is that everybody has their own shit and everybody's trying to figure it out. And some of us have access to the support, whether it comes in the form of therapy, whether it comes in the form of an Al Anon meeting, whether it comes in the form of community.
who can say, like, read this book. Who is helping Donna? Who's helping Mikey? Who's helping Natalie to understand she got mommy issues? Who's helping Carmen? I don't even know if his family knows that he's going to Al Anon meetings. But like, even going to that is a form of seeking help.
Dominique: Yeah. Going back to season one for a second, his monologue is about seven minutes.
And that's like the first time that you get to really see him dish out all of his emotions when it comes to his relationship with Mikey and just what he thinks about him. And. With Donna you never really see her vocalize any of that, right? When she does blow up, it's really about reacting towards how people are or not showing up for her.
And with Donna, it's interesting because she creates this high pressure situation. Like she's the person that's really creating it, right? Like she's at the center of this episode. At the same time, she kind of takes like plays this backseat character. And I don't think she really understands the role that she plays in all of it, the role that she plays in this dinner, the role that she plays in people being on edge, the role that she's played in the lives of Mikey, Carmy, and Natalie, and maybe she does realize it.
Asha: But we don't actually get to see it show up. Not in fishes, but we see it in the first day of the restaurant opening when Donna shows up. And she basically is like, I can't go in. And it's Natalie's husband who's like, no, you can go in like this will be good. This is because he knows that his wife. He knows that this is what Natalie wants.
This is what she's been looking for. She's like, I don't deserve them. They've created something. They've done this. They, made it happen. And I can't interrupt that. She said, I need you to tell me that it's okay. Because she knows it's not okay to not come, but she's like, I need to protect my children from me.
And the best way to do that is to not go. I can see that it's going well. I can walk away and be like, they did this thing together and I'm so proud of them. And she says that, but she's like, I need you to give me permission to leave. Maybe the best way to be there is to not be there.
Dominique: It's the first act of like selflessness that we really see from Donna.
She knows it could hurt them or specifically Natalie. There's this constant expectation of something bad going to happen, right? And that might, that comes up a little bit in the restaurant. You know, this comes up in fishes. This comes out in the end of season two, when we're seeing Donna thinking about going into the restaurant, there's this anticipation of how people are going to respond because There's a lot of erratic behavior that's coming from each character.
And that's no different for the prosados and the rest of the people at this Christmas dinner. How does this show portray the characters awareness of their family's dysfunctional patterns? But more importantly, what is this expectation of knowing that something bad is going to happen, say about how the characters are responding to each other, if the audience is feeling this way too.
Asha: I don't watch horror movies because I don't want the bad things to happen. Somebody going to die, you know, like, you know, I think I survived Game of Thrones because it was just so good until it wasn't. But then it's that notion of, I'm like, oh my God, somebody's getting their head chopped off. Like, you know, like, that's why I don't watch horror movies.
It's like, I feel like with Fishes, I feel like with the restaurant at the last episode, I'm like, Oh my God, somebody gonna die, but like not die, but like something, something dramatic is going to pop off. This is not going to work. And it's like, I, I even get this like desire to like fast forward and I have to have an internal conversation about something like “Asha, no”
No, I have to like psych myself up to be ready for what's to come. And so. To your point, when you grow up in a certain household, it's on brand. So you're going to expect the thing to go awry because that's what usually happens. Yeah, it usually does. So it's almost like naive of you to not walk into the situation with, with some expectation that it could go down like that.
Dominique: There's like a realistic managing of expectations. You can anticipate how things might play out, but it comes with the experience that you have. Given a certain scenario, right? Given the relationship, knowing how things have gone in the past, not assuming how things might go, but having an expectation of what or an understanding of what might actually occur.
Asha: Right. And so in that way you do avoid the Oh my God, is something going to go on? So my cousins, as we work to break these general racial curses, we have a lot of conversation about things. We understand that we can't control everything, but we do feel like the act of having the conversation of understanding how something could go awry, of understanding how you feel versus how I feel about a situation.
We always have to agree, but there's an effort to understand,
Dominique: Right
Asha: And to still be loving at the end of it all.Dominique: Cause we all have a moment where we lose our shit. There's so many important scenes throughout Fishes. But the fork toss is like a dramatic moment. I think most people who are watching are definitely on edge throughout the entirety of it.
Asha: Oh, the whole time.
Dominique: And then the car crash comes through. And that becomes the true symbol of their trauma. Why does the car crash hold such great significance opposed to the dramatic fork toss? Honestly, Dom, that's a great question. I'd love to like unpack that with you. When it happened, I was just like, what was that?
Did we need that? I think there were many points throughout the season, and especially throughout this episode, Where I, I just needed to take a break and like walk away, but the car crash, I don't think anybody could have seen that coming.
Asha: No, it's, it's so wild and I, and I just like, and doesn't the episode technically just end right there?
Dominique: Basically.
Asha: The whole dinner was like, you're watching a car about to crash and like, then you have the physical car crash happen at the end. Like let's just tie it up with a, with a bow and just like have a physical and crashing into this house. Right? This house where all the madness is happening.
She didn't crash into the light post or the mailbox or whatever. She crashed into the house that is holding all of this tension and all of this madness.
Dominique: It also shows like, just when you think things can't get any worse, they continue to escalate. And again, I think at the end of the day, it really comes back to Donna.
Her being at the center of, at a lot of this madness, she really plays like a really big part in how each child's. shows up, how they respond and how they decide to live their life with each other, but also on their own.
Asha: It speaks to how influential parents are in a child's life. I know everybody isn't blessed to grow up with their parents, whether it is about physical separation or the passing of a parent, but as someone who has worked in the educational system specifically with teenagers and underserved communities, but it is very true that parents have A huge, huge impact on how their children feel about themselves and how they show up in life as adults.
Dominique: Yeah, and it's like, while parents shouldn't feel responsible for it. every single action their child or children take, there's contributing factors that play a role into how they show up, whether it's their parental relationship, whether it's a parent's mental illness or an undiagnosed mental illness.
There's a lot that can actually go into how a child learns and decides to engage with people around them based on their relationship with their parents. It's interesting because just by examining Carmy and Mikey's relationship, we see how trauma and a dysfunctional family environment shape their coping mechanisms, right?
Mikey shows up by using substances to deal with his grief, his pain, his fear of failure. Whereas, Carmy channels a lot of that energy into trying to succeed in the kitchen, right? Being this great chef. So they show up in different ways. And while Carmy channels his grief into reviving the restaurant dream, Mikey's emotional intelligence, a deeper fear of failure, ends up leading to his own self destruction.
And Asha, I just want to thank you for coming onto the show and exploring the power of sibling bonds and the enduring hope for healing, even in the face of Amend challenges like substance use and mental illness.
Asha: Um, it was super, super fun. It was a pleasure. Healing is such a real thing, so I hope that we all are working towards that.
Dominique: Thank you for listening to this episode of For Love of Recovery. If you haven't watched season one or two of The Bear, you can check it out on Hulu before watching season three. And if you enjoyed this episode or know someone who might, please leave a comment and share it. You can also join our Facebook group, Siblings For Love of Recovery, if you're looking to have deeper conversation around your sibling's use of drugs or alcohol.