Unmasking teen addiction & untreated ADHD (with Shelby Robbins)
About the Episode
Teen drinking or drug use may start off with curiosity or peer pressure, but it often goes beyond that. In this episode, we uncover the connection between undiagnosed ADHD and substance use—a surprising link that’s often missed but affects nearly half of adolescents in drug and alcohol treatment.
Learn how to spot the signs of both conditions, and discover how families can support loved ones struggling with these challenges. We'll also provide practical tips for treatment, management and building strong support systems.
Guest: Shelby Robbins, founder and CEO of Antelope Recovery
This episode may help you:
Bring clarity to why substance use is often a side effect of untreated ADHD
Help listeners learn how to recognize the signs of SUD and ADHD
Provide tips for treating each disorder and things to look for when managing both
Watch Now
Episode Links
About: Shelby Robbins
Addiction and ADHD go hand in hand: Three things parents and providers need to know about treating teens with co-occurring diagnoses
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Shelby: Substance use is really hard to talk about. There's often a lot of lying, a lot of sneaking around, a lot of shame, a lot of feelings of hurt.
Usually, we find that ADHD symptoms are actually Really easy to talk about. It can be a relief to discuss them. Usually for the parents and the team, it's a place where we can create connection and a foundation.
Dominique: Welcome to FLOR For Love and Recovery, where I'm your host, Dominique Dajer. Sibling relationships can be so unique, but they can become more complex when there's drug or alcohol use involved. If you find yourself questioning how to help, you're not alone.
Every month we bring together stories that empower you to better navigate your sibling's addiction, offer a sense of connection, and provide fresh perspectives on understanding substance use and how to protect your peace. Join me on this journey in restoring hope and healing.
Dominique: It's October, and in light of ADHD awareness and substance abuse prevention month, we're going to dive deep into the connection between undiagnosed or untreated ADHD in adolescents, a link that's often missed, but affects nearly half of adolescents in substance use treatment.
And to help bring clarity as to why substance use is often a side effect of untreated ADHD, we have Shelby Robbins with us to answer some of the most pressing questions And to share tips to help recognize and manage each disorder. Shelby is the founder and CEO of Antelope Recovery, a virtual treatment center dedicated to helping adolescents and young adults navigate a range of mental health issues, including substance use and ADHD.
So Shelby, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Shelby: Thank you. It's great to be here.
Dominique: It's exciting to talk about this topic. And before we really dive into discussing the correlation between ADHD and substance use. I'd love to hear a little bit from you on what inspired some of the adolescent focus work at Antelope Recovery.
Shelby: Antelope Recovery is an organization that focuses exclusively on teen mental health and substance use disorder. Adolescence is a really special and unique time in our lives. Typically mental health, challenges and struggles and addiction presents really differently in teenagers than in Children or adults.
Personally, there's a lot of reasons why I'm really interested in adolescence. I think Being a teenager was really challenging for me and I know for many of my friends and family members. So getting to focus on this time in our lives that I think for many people is is really a struggle is super rewarding.
However, I have many loved ones, very close family members with Substance use and ADHD challenges.
Working with their, substance use challenges was almost impossible until we were able to get an ADHD diagnosis and actually address that first. So for me seeing that like cycle of addiction and, being in that chaos in my home and, things like 12 steps and traditional addiction treatment just not working for them at all.
And then the complete shift once that ADHD was addressed was really impactful.
And then, you know, in my work one of the first things usually look for when looking at when working with a kiddo, who's struggling with substance use is like, well, maybe there's some low hanging fruit or some other ways we can kind of get our foot in the door with that family, with that youth, before, Going after that big beast of substance use can be so challenging.
To me it was really impactful as a huge breakthrough and, I think really allowed us to create more calm and, love and peace at home. once we were able to, to. do that really get on the same page with the ADHD symptoms.
Dominique: It makes total sense. you had a family member that, you guys helped to get an ADHD diagnosis first before treating the substance use. Was there like a lightbulb moment where you realized, Oh, like the ADHD must be part of the root cause Towards this person's substance use or was it more of like, Someone had shared that insight with you before that lightbulb moment went off?
Shelby: So I have a sibling and a parent both who have ADHD diagnoses. you know, I was so young and kind of self absorbed at the time. think with my sibling in particular, there was just so much kind of chaos happening in her mind, that, you know, we were all just so confused by it. It was like, how do we help her? You know, she's in so much suffering and pain. And I think getting that ADHD, diagnosis... I think it was a teacher actually who recommended my parents do that.
And I think they were noticing,, just some of those classic ADHD symptoms showing up in school. And that was really helpful.
Dominique: Good to know. When my brother was about I think it was like 14 or 15 at the time So he must have been like a freshman maybe even sophomore early high school and he was diagnosed with ADHD Which I think is a little late for some for some teenagers I know a lot of people try to get diagnosed in, like, elementary, middle school if possible. High school can be a little late, I mean, better late than never. But and I remember my brother being put on a medication, and he was like, oh, I don't like the way this makes me feel, and like over time like eventually led to his substance use.
And it's something that I hear more and more when I have conversations like this one. And what I want to know is like, one, for people who might not be aware, what exactly is ADHD? And how, what is the general correlation between ADHD and substance especially, if there hasn't been an ADHD diagnosis at a younger age?
Shelby: Yeah, that's so funny. My sister, she, again, she was diagnosed much later on, which, is rare and unique.
Yeah, so what is ADHD? ADHD is a neuro-developmental disorder that's characterized by, persistent patterns of inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity.
And each of those three symptoms play out really differently over time, so it looks really different in young children and adolescents and adults, and they typically present really different with males and females.
I think as far as the correlation between ADHD and substance use, it is staggering. Between 30 to 50 percent of adolescents who are struggling with substance use disorder do also have an ADHD diagnosis.
There's a few theories about why, I think the primary one is, there is a genetic correlation with ADHD. It is heritable, it goes through time and similar with addiction. So, If you have ADHD and a substance use disorder, it is very likely you have a sibling, a parent, a grandparent, and or aunt or uncle who is also struggling with those two similar things.
That's just one of the first things to know. I think when doing, Like a comprehensive diagnosis or evaluation. That's one of the first things you'll be asked is, do you have a family member who struggles with these things? And if you do, it's okay. We might be in the ballpark of this is what's going on.
There is some new research that's come out about, dopamine dysregulation in the brain and certain parts of the brain specifically that affect both, attention, our ability to focus, and, the craving for, dopamine in external ways. So that could be through sugar, video games or through a substance.
That's one of the main kind of theories about why ADHD and substance use are correlated is because there's that dopamine deficit in the brain that people are either self-medicating to try to increase dopamine so that they can focus. And, you'll hear people say a lot, I just want to feel normal. I just want to feel like that peace inside.
Dominique: Makes me think about children in general, where I think a lot of times quote, bad behavior or misbehaved children can be mistaken for children who maybe just don't care about rules or boundaries or anything like that. But a lot of the times they might be just like trying to figure out how to deal and cope with their ADHD and they might get such a vulnerable age where they don't even know what's going on for them.
Like I've seen that a lot where it's like, Kids might be chasing like the next most exciting thing because that's whatever their brain can actually grasp on to you Like that's what's most interesting to them at the moment. So that dopamine correlation makes total sense especially as we start talking about substance use or other forms of addiction and whatever spikes that dopamine for them. As those adolescents become young adults and eventually become older, how do some of those symptoms begin to change or how do their behaviors start to evolve?
Shelby: : So you know, I think with hyperactivity with young adults and children what that can look like is like constant fidgeting, not being able to sit still or interrupting people.
In adulthood, usually we see that shift from like a physical restlessness to more of an irritability and impatience or a need to constantly be busy, or like fuss with little things here or there.
And there's just that inability to kind of sit still. So the symptoms kind of mature, as the person matures.
You know, similar with impulsivity in teenagers that might look like extreme risk taking behavior, like driving recklessly, um, experimenting with substance use In adults, it might be, frequently changing jobs or impulsive spending, it's, that same symptom will just be expressed through, more adult context rather than like a traditional teen kind of context. for that, to play out.
Dominique: And it's interesting, like These kids are at such a vulnerable point in their life and unless parents of what's going on and have an understanding or resources to, address it or treat it a lot of people might feel alone in this. situation. And you, made a great point earlier.
It's like when young adults or teenagers being brought in and they might have a substance use and there might be ADHD and you're asking, is there a sibling or a parent or other family member that has ADHD? If their ADHD is undiagnosed, they might not even know that that is a possible challenge that they could be dealing with too.
So there's so many like deep layers to this around understanding what it is correctly diagnosing, correctly treating. before you even get to the substance use if there is one, right?
Shelby: It's really challenging and, and you know, the mental health and substance use fields really aren't that equipped for working with co occurring diagnoses either. And I think that really compounds the issue. In most counseling schools, you go on one or the other track where either you're working with mental health, or you're working with substance. And there's very little crossover in that training. So, yeah, it's really challenging, for parents and then for providers as well on the other side. Most people who are really trained in working with substance use disorder have no training in ADHD and don't know what it is or even how to guide the parents in getting the right support.
It really takes a comprehensive team of providers, to really make progress there.
Dominique: Yeah, like you said, a lot of collaboration.
It's really insane to think like substance use and mental health that they're being treated independently rather than holistically. I mean, Might seem obvious to some and maybe less apparent to others, but they seem like things that would naturally go hand in hand.
I think it is a huge challenge in the mental health space, but also just like in the healthcare industry. But you know, that's another beast for another day.
Shelby: Uh huh. Yeah.
Dominique: When there's an undiagnosed or untreated ADD or ADHD in an adolescence, how does that actually hinder their ability to regulate their emotions and actually form healthy bonds and relationships throughout adulthood?Shelby: Yeah, so we can go back to those three general symptoms of ADHD. So hyperactivity, inattention, and impulsivity. So as far as how ADHD can inhibit healthy emotional regulation or healthy attachment, as someone grows up and matures, I think each of those three symptoms play into that in, in different ways.
With inattention, you might see teenagers struggling to pay attention to what their friends are saying. They might have a really hard time listening, they usually will miss details in conversation, appear forgetful, or bored.
I'm building a relationship with someone, I want to know that they care, that they're interested in me, that they remember details about my life. So, each of these little, symptoms can have an impact on others around them.
I know having a sibling with ADHD, that was definitely something that, I felt like, do you notice me over here?
She was so, all over the place and it was really hard for her to stay present, and really, really listen. That's something we've been able to work on over time in our relationship, but I, I know I've heard that for many, many people who've struggled with ADHD symptoms that can be a big challenge.
Um, and then as far as emotional regulation, I think, impulsivity is a big challenge for people with ADHD and in general emotional regulation requires. intentional, sustained attention to your inner world so that you can calm and regulate yourself. So having a, kind of hyperactive, quick to jump into action orientation to life can make it really hard to sit there with yourself and calm yourself down.
And that's hard for, for anyone with or without ADHD. I think it's hard for, for most people to emotionally regulate, especially when there's, there's big challenges. So it, it just adds, you know, one more obstacle.
Dominique: As you're speaking, I can think of so many different examples in my life where I've seen my brother's ADHD, like flare up and I'm like, Oh, like this is definitely his, you know, inability to do X or to do Y. Like even starting as a young kid, I remember it felt like every time he had homework, he's always like, I forgot, or, you know, I didn't think about that. He kind of presented as someone who was scattered brained or someone who, quote, cared, but it's not that he didn't care.
He just really couldn't focus on completing certain tasks, right? Homework was always a chore. I was always helping him. So it was like painstakingly long to like complete small mundane tasks, right? Or like, connecting the dots for him for things that might seem apparent or obvious to others, weren't as easy of a get for him.
But then things did hold his attention, like video games, right? He could play video games for hours, right? Because it was like, that dopamine, it held his attention, there was some strategy work that was interesting to him, right? So that was him as, as a teenager. As he got older and started, I think, dealing with his substance use, there was a lot of impulsivity where it's like, I don't like the way I feel, like, I need to go do this.
Or I don't like the way this conversation is going, I'm just going to walk out, right? So it's that inability to hold that conversation, regulate his emotions that actually impacted his relationships with, me, my family, others so it's interesting to see that natural progression from childhood, adolescence, you know, young adult, he's 19 now, so, and just seeing how those co occurring disorders really work together for better or for worse. So I think that's a great, like, those three points that you shared are, I think, like, right spot on. Like, I'm able to envision them so clearly.
Shelby: No, and It is really frustrating because with ADHD, there is kind of a superpower of sustained focused hyper attention on things that are interesting or engaging. To the person struggling with ADHD. So seeing, that person clearly has the ability to focus sometimes, but not others, I think for loved ones that can be infuriating and it can be hard not to take it personally of like, you know, my family member clearly cares about this one thing, like, why don't they care about me is, is a common thing we'll, we'll see in family dynamics.
I think, it's really important for family members to do things like listen to your podcast and really educate themselves on all these disorders and symptoms can kind of play out. So we know, hey, this is not about me. This , This is not personal. This person's working through their own challenges here.
Dominique: That's the number one thing that I, think of is it's not personal as personal as it feels, right? Whether it's the behavior or things they might say, it's like, it really isn't personal, although it feels like it. And I agree. I think educating yourself and whatever resources are available, I think can really help build some empathy, understanding, compassion, and trying to understand where that person might be coming from or what they're struggling with before you even start getting into like treating the root cause.
Let's say parents are just starting to notice that their child, or maybe it's someone's sibling or whoever it might be, There might be signs of ADHD. What is one of the first couple of things that you would suggest doing in addressing their ADHD? And if there do have a substance use issue, then subsequently addressing that as well?
Shelby: First and foremost, it, never hurts to get I think kind of the sooner you get that psych evaluation the better Just so you know what you're dealing with or not. know they can be expensive. There's long wait lists again in my My experience kind of the sooner You know, and you have those kind of outside eyes the faster you can treat it.
And if things start escalating really quickly, which sometimes they do in those teen years, it's, you know, one month it seems like we're managing symptoms well, and then the next month it's like, Whoa, the substance use or things are starting to get out of control really fast. You have that team of support available.
So even if you're not gonna use all that support, even if you don't want medication or your kiddo doesn't want medication right away, it's just helpful to know what your options are. And, have that circle of support ready just in case you need it. It's much harder to get a good diagnosis or an accurate diagnosis, when co occurring issues start happening and get really inflamed. So again, earlier, the better. That way we're, working on prevention than kind of a crisis intervention state, which, substance use will quickly kind of escalate into.
As far as just kind of simple things you can do. One of the big things I've noticed is, for families who have a family member who has ADHD and substance use.
Usually the substance use is really hard to talk about. There's often a lot of lying, a lot of sneaking around, a lot of shame, a lot of feelings of hurt.
Usually, we find that ADHD symptoms are actually Really easy to talk about. It can be a relief to discuss them. Usually for the parents and the team, it's a place where we can create connection and a foundation.
So I think being really open and honest about, wow, you, you're like, really struggling to pay attention to stuff. That seems really hard. you know, Usually a teenager might feel seen by that, of like, yeah, it is so hard. I really don't feel like I can pay attention to anything right now. again, Just creating like a shared reality around those symptoms. It can create some foundation of trust.
Other easy kind of low hanging fruit things you can do if you start noticing ADHD symptoms again, outside of getting professional support, and talking about it is, minimizing screen time.
The less screen time for people with ADHD, the better. It seems to really exacerbate those symptoms. So limiting social media, having limitations on phone use, screen use. I think the best way for parents to do that is by modeling that behavior with. This is how we're going to do things in our family, and we're going to do this together. So, if your kiddo is not allowed to be on their phone during dinner. You should not be on your phone during dinner time. Having those kinds of strict limitations can be so helpful. Just as those young minds are developing.
And then the last thing is nutrition and exercise. I think nutrition and exercise helps with almost every mental health challenge and especially with substance use is limiting addictive foods like sugar, caffeine you know, making sure your kiddo Has a well rounded diet is eating at regular times throughout the day every day.
I think the more structure and routine you have with ADHD, the more that will help ground them into the present moment and, create more stability in a world that can feel really chaotic.
Dominique: Absolutely. It sounds like what I'm hearing too is just like having like multiple sources of healthy channels, whether it's. Exercise, nutrition, you know, limiting screen time, et cetera. It's like not, throwing yourself at just one thing. You know, it's food, Sometimes it's, I said, video games, a relationship or whatever else it might be, whatever is the most gratifying or stimulating.
But I think either having those in small quantities or just having other options, other healthy choices to resort to rather than throwing yourself onto one thing.
Shelby: You're 100 percent right. I think Providing your child with multiple ways for them to express their energy in a healthy way and and get healthy dopamine You know which healthy dopamine Usually looks like if I do this hard work towards a goal or towards something I then get the reward rather than cheap short term rewards like sugar or any myriad of substances that are now available to kids.
So, if I work really hard, I then. get this reward that really helps create those healthy dopamine
Dominique: Right. It's really about that confidence it helps to build in that person, right. The confidence, the dopamine. And I think a lot of the times too, at least in my experience, it's People that I know that have ADHD or untreated ADHD tend to have lower self confidence because they're so preoccupied with things that aren't really productive, but they might be fulfilling that need for dopamine.
We talked a lot about like what parents and what other family members can do. Do you think there's anything in particular, you know, siblings have a very unique relationship. Sometimes that age gap is super tight, may might be a couple months apart.
Sometimes, you know, like me and my brother, we're 10 years apart.
I know it's going to vary from sibling to sibling relationship to relationship. In general, do you think there's anything that siblings can do to really support their brother or sister's ADHD? And or their substance use
Shelby: No, I definitely think so.
I was reflecting on this before being on, your podcast and it was really sweet, actually thinking back to living with my sister and, For me, it was, it was always this balance of how do I have healthy boundaries with my sibling, so that I don't get dragged into the chaos too, while also, getting to enjoy her, and be with her and, this constant dance of, getting to really celebrate, our unique relationship and just hang out and have fun with her.
When she did get her ADHD diagnosis, talk with her about that. wow, it's been really hard that we haven't, known what's going on and now we do, and that's amazing.
And then again, At the same time, it was, having really strong boundaries of, you know what, I don't really want to do that with you. Or, I don't think this is, this is really the best move and, really holding my ground in that which can be hard. I want us to be best friends and I want to be on the same team.
And, having those boundaries can be really challenging as a sibling especially if you're younger.
Dominique: Yeah. That makes sense. you know, Hoping that your sister is going to be your best friend.
It's like when, issues like maybe a mental illness or, other challenges arise. It's sometimes about like managing expectations. Like what is my relationship with my sister going to provide me?
What is she actually capable of doing? What's within her reach? Rather than like holding someone to an expectation that they might not be able to fulfill right then and there.
I've seen that with my brother. Again, like I said my age gap with him I've always looked forward to you know, him getting older so that way we can bond over certain things.
That's kind of like something that I'm craving now, right? Like maybe I don't want him to be my best friend, but I do want to have this really close sibling bond and relationship.
And like part of that ADHD and substance use makes it that much more challenging.
Shelby: Yeah, there can definitely be a level of grief there. I've seen that in a lot of different sibling relationships of just like, wow, I guess these are the limitations of the relationship, and that's really challenging. you know,
My sister and I are really close now. I think she's managing. her healing really well.
I'm super proud of her and really impressed with her and I have other Family members and friends in my life where that's not the case and grieving those relationships is hard. I remember being a young person in college, hearing people complain about their parents, calling them too much or, having different dynamics and being like, wow, I wish I had that problem, you know, having a close relationship with this person and, it can be isolating.
Dominique: Yeah. There's a lot of complexities that comes to those relationships, especially siblings because I don't think there's really any relationship where they're exactly alike. So I think it is a very unique case by case situation on how certain relationships, you know, develop and how what those bonds look like.
Are there any strategies that you think you know, your siblings can use or family members can use to empower their teen to take ownership of like maybe ADHD or their substance use or even their anxiety , when they're ready to start that recovery journey?
Shelby: I think taking ownership of your experience, is really hard and It's hard for all of us. I think the way to kind of move beyond the defensiveness of like, Oh no, that's not me. Or, Oh, I'm this way because of this and this, and kind of shuffling off your experience and, happens best when you see other people model how to do that in a graceful way.
I want to encourage people to, own their experience first. If you're a parent you know, you're going to have your own struggles. By owning that with your family and owning that in a graceful way, it opens the door for your kids to mirror that behavior and do similar things, with their own experience.
You could say, wow, I'm really stressed out. I'm having a really hard time feeling like I'm being a good mom right now. It's been really hard for me and just, Making that statement, just, just owning that, and usually kids are like, yeah, you are having a hard time or like, wow yeah, that is, that is true.
Dominique: Seeing our parents or siblings, whoever has that specific role, that's just mom, that's just dad, that's just my aunt, my grandparent, sibling, whoever. And it's like, no, there are people too, like they have, they usually have like their own parents or their own siblings and families and their own dynamics and stressors that they're working. And I'm not a parent, but what I've seen is like, a lot of parents feel that they need to, quote, be like the strong person or be like, Like the model image, but by trying to be this model image, they're not actually attending to all the other areas of their life that they can attend to. And perpetuates like this idea of the perfect parent that doesn't actually exist.
Shelby: You know, by doing that you put pressure on your kids to try to be perfect or you know, it closes the door for the kids to get to share that they're struggling. So, I think there's a way to do that responsibly. You definitely don't wanna. Just start dumping all your issues on your kids, but you can own it and then, you know, a good way to follow up might be, this is what I'm gonna do about it.
Like I don't want to be stressed out. So, I'm gonna, do this for dinner instead of making a huge feast for all of us, or I'm gonna, decide not to drive you to your friend's house tonight because I'm so stressed out. I just need to be calm and chill out a little bit.
And again, by mirroring, having a good relationship with our experience and taking care of ourselves. We open the door, to give our kids feedback and have them actually hear it of like, wow, you're really struggling paying attention. Like, do you agree? Like what's going on with that? And to have them be like, you know, yeah, I am.
And, you know, Your kids need to trust you, that if they are struggling that you're going to handle that well. Otherwise the dialogue just gets cut off. You know, I think that's the first place to start, with, family relationships it kind of all starts with you.
It's really easy to want to fixate and fix and try to change the person who's struggling and make them wrong and, kind of leave yourself and just fuss over them.
And that usually doesn't work very well. It's doesn't feel good to be fussed over. it, makes it hard for a teenager to actually honestly communicate and, can lead to more sneaking and lying and hiding and shame and not wanting to be fussed over.
So, you know, withdrawing or acting out
Dominique: Yeah, they’re probably going to hide whatever those behaviors are, even more so, And an effort to not be perceived as this, quote, problem child.
It really seems like, one, prioritizing your own well being and setting those healthy boundaries in all areas of your life, especially with your children, maybe even your spouse.
That's how you model that healthy behavior for your child in managing their ADHD, their mental health in general, their anxiety, their substance use. It's a very foundational, right? To just their overall wellness.
Shelby: 100%. again, I think with that, you can model, like, how do you approach challenges as a family? Like, if someone in the family has an ADHD diagnosis, you can model like, here's how we're going to take care of this together. And here's how we're going to take care of each other.
We're gonna put our phones in this box over here every night, and that's our new thing. And let's try it for a month and see what happens. And, you know, by, talking about it as a family and then trying New things to see like what's going to help us like each other and like our lives more, um, your kids are going to feel safer to tell you about issues because they're going to trust you're going to handle it.
I think trust is really what we're going for with teen mental health.
Dominique: I know sometimes as teenagers get older and they start to develop more independence between 16-18, some of those challenges start to evolve, right?
It's not going to be as simple as putting your phone in a lockbox, right? It becomes harder to control and support them in a way that might have been familiar for a long time.
What do you think the value is, is just having open and healthy dialogue and those conversations with children or with young adults as they get older, whereas before that might not have been as much of a challenge, but now it's really starting to present itself?
Shelby: I think with older teens, you got to get really clear as a parent or as an adult of like, what can I control and what can I not? Before having those conversations and getting really clear on what your boundaries are.
So usually like three, maybe four, big challenges that come up are curfew, the car, driving is usually a big one and money. Kids want money, they want your money and what are they doing with it? well, and then I guess the phone. So the four big kind of conflict zones, and four big areas where parents, do have some control.
I think you, you got to be ready to take it away you know, and just stand your ground. One of the big kind of suggestions we at Antelope of recommend is presenting teens with options that align with what your boundaries are when you're having those heated conversations or if your kiddo is is really out of control. You can take the car And here's what's gonna happen if I have any Sense that you're going to be out past curfew if you're drinking and driving.
Or if I don't hear from you, if you don't actually check in with me, at 11 o'clock, I'm going to call the police and report something, or I'm going to go to bed at this time and lock the doors or here's what I'm going to do. And it's up to you to make these choices and then following through with that.
I think by doing that, not blaming, not accusing, and really setting your kid up to make these decisions on their own You know, it's, it's treating them like an adult. I think if you're, you're trying to control your kid, trying to make decisions for them or not giving them that agency, that's not helping them.
They're not actually going to learn. They're not going to learn how to make decisions that are, are helpful. I think that's one of the main ways we try to set families up for success is let's create some boundaries, get really clear on what those boundaries are for you as a parent, get clear on what you can and can't control and, you know, allow your kid to make mistakes and, Just make sure you, follow through and stay integrity with, what you can control.
And, you know, you can do similar things with, with positive incentives like, Hey, if you get these good grades, I want to give you more freedom. If you don't get good grades, you're not gonna get that, and that's fine but I, I think it can really take the fight out of those conversations, and again, just handing the power to the teenager, of like, this is your life, you can engage with this how you want to, and I'm here to help if you need tutoring, if you need something to meet these goals, that's on you to kind of ask for that.
This is what I'm going to do as your parent in relationship to those behaviors. um, kind of The more upfront you can be, the better those conversations tend to go.
Dominique: I think those are spot on. And one thing that really stood out to me while you were speaking is not making idle threats. So it's not about, like, locking your kid out. Like, that's not the goal of, the, quote, punishment or the natural consequence they're facing. It's just letting them know, like, if X happens, then Y will occur.
And I think really being comfortable with whatever that thing is and sticking to it rather than, just being like, oh, like, mom's gonna say this thing and it's not actually gonna happen. Or like, dad's not really gonna do that thing. And I think that gives parents more power than they think that they might actually have is really exercising the authority where they do have control.
One thing I did want to think about when it comes to treatment is, what are the right treatment options when thinking about, addressing both addiction and their ADHD?
We talked about earlier on in the episode that start to address both of those areas.
Shelby: So with ADHD I always recommend talking to and knowing a psychiatrist who can do a full psych eval. Some substance use programs provide that and some do not.
But making sure you have that professional in your corner is going to be really key as you navigate aDHD, regardless of if you decide to pursue medication or not. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
C. B. T. Is one of the best treatment options you can do for someone with ADHD. So getting really strong, kind of skill building where you're focusing on you know, attention training and looking at your mind and strengthening your mind.
Those are, kind of the two best ways I think you can address ADHD.
At Antelope, we usually recommend, like, very short but very frequent CBT sessions. So, with a lot of our kiddos, we're doing three or four times a week, 30 minute quick, CBT sessions, with a kiddo who's struggling with ADHD.
And that tends to work. Really well is again, part of, that kind of focus and attention training.
With substance use, the substance use field usually looks like, 12 step. So going, getting involved in a 12 step community, whether that's, just an ongoing local recovery community that's happening or it looks like kind of intensive treatment.
Where you're living at a residential program you're getting detox support and it's, more like a medicalized kind of intervention. I think for substance use, it really depends on how you approach treatment, on how far along the disorder has developed. So we see kids who are in kind of an earlier stage of experimentation. It's clear they're getting out of control and this could evolve over time, But they might not be in a full blown addiction.
We see other kiddos who are in again, like a very severe full blown addiction. And for them, we would 100 percent recommend, you know, you need medical detox attention and you need to live somewhere for, you know, four to six months to again, kind of detox, get back to ground zero with your substance use for working on the ADHD and substance use at once.
I think the biggest thing you can do is. talk to your providers about it. How do they recommend treating both of these things?
We usually look at what do we treat first based on how severe the ADHD is, not necessarily the substance use. if we look at the ADHD symptoms and they're really severe [ADHD symptoms] We will focus on that first, regardless of the status of the addiction.
If we make some headway here, we know that, the substance use is going to dramatically calm down, usually.
That can relieve kind of the most suffering at once.
Once the ADHD is at a mild to moderate kind of level, that's when we'll kind of shift focus to the substance use.
If we look at the ADHD and it's kind of mild to moderate symptoms, we'll likely focus on the substance use first, and really make some headway there. Substance use treatment usually involves CBT to some level, to some degree. So we'll see the reduction in symptoms of the ADHD and substance use at the same time, when we focus on the substance use that way.
Where you're going to really want, sustained support is going to be once you're out of a treatment setting and in kind of the long term maintenance phase. So in that like relapse prevention state, that's when you're going to want to find like an individual therapist or a group setting, with a professional who understands those co occurring issues. And again, relapse prevention and just against really staying on top of your ADHD symptoms and, you know, medication management, from there.
Dominique: This is super helpful and I think provides a lot of foundational resources and wanting to support our friends and family and loved ones who might have ADHD, but may or may not have a substance use disorder.
I want to close out with one thanking you for the question, for thanking you for all these insights that you've shared, but asking you if there's one thing that a family member can do today or tomorrow, what would that one thing be?
Shelby: You know, no one knows your kid or your sibling as well as you do. You know them better than anybody.
The one thing I recommend is just educate yourself, educate, educate, educate. Gobble up podcasts, read all the books um, talk to your friends who have kids who are really struggling and then talk to your friends who have kids who are not struggling at all and ask them.
So, you know, The more research you're doing, the better you can really advocate for their unique, you know, and beautiful self, out in the world.
And, that's pretty much it. I think one of the best things we can do. I know it takes time. I know it's hard. I know we've all got a million other things to do. And, every little bit that you learn, it'll help you really advocate for your kid and, and getting, the
Dominique: Sounds good. Yeah. Definitely meeting them where they are. Thank you, Shelby, so much. I really appreciate you coming on to the show today and helping to shed this light on the connection between both substance use and ADHD and how families can support these challenges through conversations, empathy, and just doing some education, like you said, homework, homework, homework. So you again.
Dominique: Thanks for listening to this episode of For Love Recovery. If you enjoyed this episode or know somebody who might, please leave a comment and share it. You can also join our Facebook group, Siblings For Love of Recovery, if you're looking to have deeper conversations around your sibling's use of drugs or alcohol. And remember, where there is hope, there is healing.